Saturday, June 14, 2008

John Twisleton on Premier Christian Radio

At John Twisleton answers frequently asked questions, as part of Premier Christian Radio's output.

I had a Debate with John Twisleton where I hammered him on the evidence for the resurrection.

Like all true believes, John has responded to getting his beliefs thumped by simply burying his head in the sand and pretending that he has arguments for his claims that somebody walked on water and ascended into Heaven.

Christianity - ignoring facts since 33 AD.....

7 Comments:

Blogger Tim Ellis said...

Steven Carr - ignoring my comment on "Christians hear voices in their head" for what feels like since 33 AD.....

9:26 AM  
Blogger Jon said...

Steven, I'm interested in this issue about Paul's view of the resurrected body that you often emphasize. Could you point me somewhere where you have debated this with a Christian? Looks like you made the point with Twisleton, but it looks like he didn't go after it.

5:52 PM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

Debate has a recording of a debate I had on Premier Christian Radio

10:09 PM  
Blogger Jon said...

Good stuff, Steven. Your opponent had no idea how to deal with this issue.

This sounds like a pretty powerful argument to me. Can you point to anything that you would consider a decent attempt at a rebuttal from a Christian? So far I'm seeing stuff like this which talks about how "soma" is always referring to physicality in Scripture and also maybe something like this that talks about how Jews had no concept of a resurrection that didn't involve the physical body.

But then it's not clear to me that you are arguing that the resurrected body isn't in some sense physical but only that the resurrected body is not the same body that went into the tomb. As you pointed out before, Clement sees the Phoenix as rising but leaving the bones behind. Do I have you right on that?

7:01 AM  
Blogger Jon said...

Also, how do you take Rom 8:10-11?

8:27 AM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

Romans 8:10-11 is about the here and now, just as Ephesians also claims the resurrection has already happened.

Clement does talk about the Phoenix leaving bones behind, as a symbol that it has a new life.

'Physical' is a red herring.

Spirit was a physical thing.

After all, Jacob wrestled with an an angel. That was 'physical'.

Paul's point is that Jesus has become a spirit, and is now no longer made of flesh and blood.

9:16 AM  
Blogger QMonkey said...

This is the problem Steven… actually, debate doenst work… believers, at the end of the day respond by asking GOD to help them understand how the bible is reliable and pertaining to GOD.

The more you enter into complex debate the more you intellectualize the delusion. I think.



http://qmonkey.wordpress.com
http://maryquitecontrary.wordpress.com

2:05 AM  

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